Many of you have expressed questions about why I would choose to participate in a war dec of Uni and why Seppuku has chosen to issue that dec.
Because Seppuku Pilots have been dropped from the scetions of your boards where you are discussing this (understandably), I will use this forum to try and explain it as best I can.
Seppuku has been offered contracts to dec the Uni before and we have turned them down. We have been offered these contracts by multiple folks, all of whom harbored Uni only ill will and had no justification for that animus. They were all turned down.
The current dec is the result of a contract offered under substantially different circumstances and based on other... let's just say.. less than friendly attitudes and actions taken by some members of Uni's current leadership toward us and others, there was no overwhelming reason to stay our hand again. Any possibility of reasonable discussion was quickly dispatched by both deeds and attitudes from both sides.
99.9% of all of this took place behind the scenes, with students seeing only what Uni leadership chose to disclose, as is their prerogative.
So, Seppuku has gone merc?
So, why am I choosing to participate? Have I failed in some duty to babysit Sabre like a 12 year granddaughter? Have I crossed over to the Dark Side and become another of the BAAAAAD MENZ that prey upon the poor poor noobs?
ROFLMAO!
Let's get a few things clear:
I have the utmost respect for Morning Maniac and his vision.
I have the same level of respect for the stated ideals, goals and objectives of Uni.
I strongly believe that Uni is the best place for any new player to start the game.
I am very proud of the time I spent at Uni and continue to be honored to have served there.
When I left Uni, I did so because I felt an increasing level of discomfort with some of the ideas and concepts that were being communicated. There was an increasing level of partisanship, that I freely admit I bought into at first. This 'bunker mentality' permeates and surrounds all. The message was that if you fought Uni, you were destroying the game, you were griefing and mere scum to be despised and disposed of. Internet Spaceships was DAMN SERIOUS and conflict should be approach only in the grave manner normally associated with real world issues of life and death.
But, increasingly, I interacted with those that, according to what was being espoused internally, I should hate, have nothing in common with and be prepared to find only the worst of humanity.
What I found was significantly different.
Most (not all!) were decent folks who didn't have any particular gripe with Uni. They were just out for a little fun with their pixels. They weren't vermin or lowlifes or bottomfeeders.
Trying to reconcile this disconnect (among other 'pinches') left me with the conclusion that I had to leave, at least for a time.
In my time away from Uni, I have learned much (MWD is not optional in 0.0, m'kay?), relearned much (everything in the game is PvP related, just in different guises) and unlearned much (I don't have to hate you to shoot you and just because you shoot me doesn't mean you hate me! It's not personal!).
I have learned that Internet Spaceships is not DAMN SERIOUS, that rearranging pixels on the screen can be great fun and a little smack never hurt anything. Oh yeah, and I learned that Sabre was right about just as many things as I was. ;)
That's all fine, you say, but why are you fighting Uni?
Three reasons:
I fight with my Corpmates.
Because I believe that Uni can serve the new pilots even better than they do today.
Because it will be FUN, win lose or draw.
Respectfully,
Dee Carson
PS: If you want my Director Emeritus medal, you can pry it from my cold, dead, hand.
PPS: Only 20 Million for my corpse? Hell, I'll match that, AK, you slacker! Lol
Posts
21 comments:
Respect is not something that is easy to attain, yet at least in my eyes you have that and more. I have never flown with you, nor fought with you, but just the fact that you are above board, explained differences of opinion with logic and reason describes one of the BEST reasons to respect someone. I wish you and the students you may indeed fight with at EvE University the best of luck. Oh yes, if I were a betting man, I know whom I would bet with...glad I am not at EvE University :) Good hunting!
Dee - AK here.
Just wanted to let you know, where ever you got that quote, I did NOT put a bounty out on anyone. Most especially I did NOT put a bounty out on you...
Contact me through the Ivy Mail or through ADHC...
Dee,
I joined Uni under your leadership and still remain in the Uni today. Although I'm not familiar with the dispute between the SW leadership and the Uni leadership, deccing the Uni for reasons of the dispute and validity of the contract originator still doesn't negate the fact that the people that are affected the most are the students. Especially when you are blowing up the POS (which you are currently doing).
I'm disappointed, but I still respect you, old man. And in the end it is just internet spaceships.
ITB: Dee Carson gives a lesson on hypocrisy. Good job offlining the POS of a charity, wanna rob a homeless shelter next?
It's good to see that people recognize that as much fun can be had in conflict as in peace.
They'll never learn if no one fights them, it's a harsh universe.
Have fun.
Dee, feel free to explain just how you "believe that Uni can serve the new pilots even better than they do today". As has been said many times, anyone is free to set up their own competitor to E-UNI, and anyone doing so is welcome, but if there are things that can be done better now than when you were in charge, you should know I would be willing to hear them.
Personally, I find your attack against the POS, an asset provided to the membership at below public costs as a non-profit project, to be both disappointing and distressing.
So far, I have seen no actions which could be seen as benefiting Eve University, and in fact you threaten the continuance of its mission to educate players in all aspects of Eve.
The fact that after being Director of Operations for so long, you seem to have forgotten your reasons for leaving E-UNI, is what may be the most worrying aspect.
The question stands however - what, precisely would you do differently?
--
Kelduum Revaan
Director of Operations
Eve University
@ AK - You should already have my reply & apology for this mis-identification as well as my permission to post same in the Uni boards since I no longer have access. I'll still match the 20M bounty! ;P
@ Anonymous #1 & #2 - Sorry, but you have both been mis-informed. Uni POS was never put into reinforced last night, nor was that the intent of the operation. Anyone who saw the composition of our fleet would have been able to recognize that fact immediately.
@ Kelduum - I'll post on this later.
As an ex-Uni member I can see both sides of this issue. I agree with Dee that the way some 'leaders' in the Uni don't always act as such.
It seems obvious that the strategy of deterrance by docking and making the KB look good isn't working. People seem to dec the uni regardless. Perhaps it's time for a new wartime policy that allows members a little more freedom during wartime?
Either way, good luck to both sides. This should be fun to watch!
Dee,
You don't know me, and I don't know you. I just wanted to say that the manner in which you have conducted yourself thus far has generated nothing but respect on my end.
Sure, it would be great if you don't blow up our POS - given that it is basically a civilian resource - but if attacking it gets us to come out and fight, so be it.
Suffice to say, I'll be looking you guys up when my term at the UNI is ready to come to an end.
Until then, see you in space
o7
Tbh, even if the POS is blown up, there would be nothing strange with that. You use it all the time as a strategic rally point, so it is most definetly a military asset.
See my post to “response by request” to establish my bonafides – (in my best O Brother Where Art Thou accent) – and yes I did grow up in the south and I will defend North Carolina Barbeque over Texas style til my grave!
So, SW has been offered contracts to dec Uni in the past, but they didn’t accept them because the offerors bore Uni ill will. The current dec was based on “reasonable” ill will against the Uni. 99.9% of all of this was out of the view of most Uni members. Well, Dee, I am assuming that you are not under a non-disclosure agreement, so maybe you could share these different circumstances with us.
The funny thing is that there is no difference in the impact on the Uni from a contract that is reasonable and a contract that is unreasonable. In other words, if there is a reason to not take a contract on the Uni from an unreasonable party because of the impact on the Uni, then the same reasoning holds for a reasonable party.
So, SW is not a merc corp. But they accepted a merc contract. So there is probably a really good reason for this. But we don’t know what it is.
You stated that you have the utmost respect for MM and his vision, the same level of respect for the ideals, goals, and objectives of Uni, you believe the Uni is the best place for a new player to start the game, and you are proud of your time at Uni.
Given all that, I ask a very simple question: how will your wardec of the Uni benefit the Uni? How will this wardec make the Uni serve its pilots better?
And yes, internet spaceships is SERIOUS BUSINESS is a funny meme. But I played high school football and soccer, and although they were just games, there were emotions invested in them, particularly with teammates. I don’t think a game like Eve is that much different.
So, that’s all I have. I am genuinely curious to hear what you have to say. Thank you for your response.
"PS: If you want my Director Emeritus medal, you can pry it from my cold, dead, hand."
The fact that you can post this while simultaneously claiming you aren't a scum-sucking bottom-feeder who associates with other scum-sucking bottom-feeders is highly amusing.
I think the Unistas can judge you better from your actions then your drivel.
@ Anonymous
Glad I could provide you some amusement. You caused me to laugh, too!
Have a cookie and take a seat on the couch! Spongebob will be on in just a minute and you can watch it by yourself while the big boys & girls continue their conversation.
DC
@ Anza Lyu
Can I have NC style for lunch & Texas style for dinner? ;)
Our war dec will serve the Uni students by providing them opportunities to continue to advance their PvP knowledge, tactics and skills. Uni has already had at least one new FC step up to the plate. This guy exhibited initiative and aggressiveness. The fight may not have turned out exactly the way he wanted, but read his AAR and you'll see that he learned something! (And he can come fly with me anytime! The spirit of Hawzar & Mackers lives on!)
If you saw my reply to your other comment, I hope that you have now learned something about POS attack and defense and perhaps something about the mindset of an FC as he weighs the assets he has against the possible objectives he can undertake.
I have a couple of ideas about other things that we might do to provide additional instruction/information that I will be discussing with my guys. Stay tuned for this space for more info.
How can this dec make the Uni serve it's students better? It's clear that no outside entity can 'make' Uni do anything. Perhaps it can encourage Uni leadership to do somethings differently, but clearly, what things and how differently will be matters determined only by those that currently run the show.
Thank you for the maturity of your response and question. I appreciate it!
DC
Since I still see myself as a student I feel free to apply.
You took the uni's director of operations job under the condition that you would quit if it would stop being fun. You did a good job and when we had some internal drama you left because that wasn't fun. I totally agreed with you there, it wasn't and you were right to quit to persue more fun stuff. Now claiming you quit for other reasons may suit your current mindset or situation but is not quite what happened.
In eve uni, the director of operations has a lot of power, if not absolute power, and if you did not like the way things worked in the uni you should have changed them then.
If you have gained new insights you know you can always contact Kelduum, myself or any of the leaders in the uni. I'm happy to admit that the uni is far from perfect and you should know that we're open to good suggestions. Perhaps letting Sabre do the talking on your behalf isn't a good idea, even though his ideas might be good, his communication skills sometimes rub people the wrong way.
You may also recall how pleased I was when Sabre founded SW and I was also happy to see you join him to help it become a (bigger) success. Even if you just wardecced us for fun I still wouldn't have any issues with you, especially if you got some nice ISKies out of it. Too bad you guys came up with this whole "you're doing it all wrong" and "you're so mean to us" agenda. Both those issues would be better solved by talking about them.
You may have forgotten a lot about your time in the uni. Wars can be educational yes, we aren't short on those "educational moments", yours isn't needed for that purpose.
Since you left progress has been made towards continued teaching/learning during wars. Still, wars don't help and as you know. When they continue less and less people log on. Mostly hurting the new guys who don't even know you. While doing little to move your agenda forward.
All in all I really can't see how you think this was the way forward. You have a lot of great guys on your team, I would be happy to see some them in the uni's or it's students' future. Contrary to what you believe, I think the old hands would be willing to get over current issues because they remember how good and friendly you guys are. From our forums I can tell that most new guys will probably be not so forgiving and we'll have a hard time fixing things, creating yet more drama, making things less fun, thanks for that.
MM
@MM
Please send me an in game email, just to confirm these are indeed your comments and not someone else playing social engineering games.
DC
Just thought I'd drop this for you Dee. It's one of the latest 'goodbye' posts in the Hi and bye section of the forum.
"Saying Goodbye
I'm sad to leave, but with the constant wars the Uni is stuck in I am getting very bored of the same old sitting in stations and joining fleets. I enjoy being part of a fleet and going out and fighting for the Uni but I can only fly a T1 frigate and the little amount I am able to do is not worth the £15 I pay every month to play this game.
I want to say thank you to all the teachers and staff here at E-Uni, I feel I have learnt some of the very basics of the game and understand some of the mechanics a little better. I think what the Uni does is brilliant, and its something I will always keep in mind while playing eve in the months to come. I also want to say thank you to everyone who has helped make me feel at home in the Uni and all the players I have met along the way.
To those that would try and hurt the Uni, I simply can't understand your thinking. The people here want nothing more than to help out new players. There may be some internal politics and ego/e-peen stroking going on but I don't care about that, I just want to learn how to play this game in a safe supportive environment.
If the Uni finally gets rid of the chronic wars I may re-apply, but I just don't see that happening any time soon. My final act will be to take part in the last ditch defense of the POS this afternoon, I hope that I can help in some small way.
Thanks again Unistas,
Mel o7"
If this is what you, Acacia, Sabre, M0rdo etc. wanted then I can only hope that you are more than satisfied with the outcome.
Fly safe o7
This was posted in reply to your 'open letter to the Uni' topic on the Eve University forums. I think it's worth posting here aswell:
"kassie kelmar wrote:
A point. (Or two)
Old timers tend to forget what the game was like when they first started, yes the isk grind was a lot harder, however Eve has changed beyond recognition since the first days, it's become a massive, complex, living cluster. CCP has introduced layers of complexity with every content addition since day 1 and they have gone in different directions to a lot of the MMO's out there.
So what does this mean?
A player new to Eve has two massive hurdles to get over to find the wonder and enjoyment of Eve, in the case of Solo gamers who've never played an MMO (here due to the retail release) before they still have two but the second one is different. Hurdle one for all is the complexity of this game, When you start you can be ANYTHING, do ANYTHING, but this can lead to a kind of paralysis, especially amongst MMO players used to being led by the hand by previous MMO developers, "I can do anything, what do i do?". This happens at a time when they are just learning what modules are, what they are used for and how to fly their ships, while all the experienced eve players are adding to the complexity just doing what they do.
For previously solo players, they have the hurdle of having to get used to working with actual PLAYERS, illogical, inconsistent, testy, real people. That should be a breeze as people do it in their real lives every day you say? This ignores the fact that 80% of human communication is non verbal, voice, tone, inflection, body language, none of this can be really represented in a game. Even when you can hear people, on TS, Vent and Voice, you may not be hearing everything they are saying due to quality of voice reproduction.
We, the existing players of Eve, have been adding to the complexity in every way we can, just by looking to get an edge in the game, a niche, where we can function. RL > Eve, is an oft quoted Mantra, and players sometimes leave, for an MMO to remain healthy, it has to at least replace the numbers leaving. To generate more income that will allow the game to expand, it needs to do more than that, the game needs new blood, more people, and especially, new ways of looking at Eve, untainted by what has happened before, that may have a lightbulb moment and lead us all into a New New Eden, full of wonder for all.
It is easy for those who have, at least in some part, mastered eve, to forget what their first steps were like in this game, because all the knowledge they have accumulated covers the memories of thinking "What the heck is this and what does it do, where does it go on my ship?"
Some say that Eve is a purely PvP game, it may have started out as that, but if it was that now, the markets would still be NPC driven and mining would just be a way of selling stuff to NPC's to get isk to buy an NPC built ship.
Eve is now a living organism and there are many many roles in the organism for all that inhabit it, and they are all interdependent. PvP will always be a central part of Eve, its fun, it gets the players adrenalin rushing through their veins, but Eve now, is not and cannot be, a purely PvP game, its too complex for that.
Eve University exists to remove some of the pain for the new pilot, so they don't feel like they are beating their heads against the brick wall of an elitist attitude that some pilots in eve have developed. An attitude which, while comforting for those that ascribe to it, does nothing for the development of Eve the game.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Eve Online
Edit: Welcome to your new life in New Eden"
Though I no longer play EvE, and have no stake in the conflict, my reaction as I read this was as follows:
Nuts!
Serdic/Cind
I don't know anything first hand about E-Uni, never having been in it, or actively involved with it in any capacity (or Dee for that matter). The only things I've picked up to base my opinions on are the posts that Dee has made in his blog entries as part of the blog pack.
Even based on that though, something doesn't add up. Dee, you highlighted yourself (http://deecarson.blogspot.com/2008/12/turn-page.html) that your reasons for leaving were personal, and non specific.
It also reads to me, that having enjoyed many years of gameplay without Pew Pew oriented PvP being the mainstay of your game time, now that it is, you have decided that everyone else should have the same experience.
Sure, you have the right to war dec the Uni, and you don't have to explain why. But you have attempted to explain why, and in your attempt to explain it you come across badly in my opinion.
To me, it reads as if you are a "born again" PvP convert, who has found the "one true source of fun" in the game, and with this new understanding are determined to convert or annoy those who don't share your new found view, as if the alternative playstyle (ie, not predominantly Pew Pew PvP based) is no longer valid, in spite of the fact you yourself got many years(?) of enjoyment from said playstyle. You say it will be fun, win lose or draw, and I've no doubt that you're right, from your perspective. But that is not necessarily going to be the case when talking about a bunch of new players learning the game being on the receiving end of your fun. In this outsiders opinion, it would be much better if you just came out and said it "I'm doing it because it's fun and I owe my corpmates my loyalty", rather than trying to couch it in terms such as "I believe that Uni can serve the new pilots even better than they do today" and extensive talk of respect and old history. That at least would read more honestly.
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